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Forum:	All Forums : Soldier of Fortune
Category:	SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Mapping, modeling, scripting, skinning and all forms of editing for the game Soldier of Fortune II
Moderators:	foyleman, narc, ReverendTed, rEdrUmMDK, Foxhound, PleaseMYOB, StrYdeR, supersword, batistablr, Welshy

Author

Topic: Leaking structures, building style ?

elemenz

General Member
Since: Dec 5, 2004
Posts: 260
Last: Oct 10, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 02:00 am
Which is the best way to make basic stairs, A1, 2, or 3 ? Why ? Which stair building style/technique do you prefer ? A1 - step by step A2 - "shy steps" A3 - pyramid stepping Does A2 (as well as B1 in the 2nd pic) "leak" beause the brushes aren't lapping each other like A1 and A3 do ? Which is the best way to make a basic room, B1, 2, or 3 ? Why ? Which room building style/technique do you prefer ? B1 - "shy floor, wall, and roof" B2 - wall stretched to floor and roof B3 - floor and roof over and under the wall

oofunk

General Member
Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 178
Last: Jun 3, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 04:57 am
How you make stairs doesnt matter as these will more than likely be detail anyway. Walls... none of the above..... basically you want to overlap the walls and clip the corners on their mating 45degree angle.... if that makes sense... its early on a Monday so i cant think of good descriptive words!! Funk

elemenz

General Member
Since: Dec 5, 2004
Posts: 260
Last: Oct 10, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 05:53 am
The B- pictures are in a side view, not from above... And why would you want to clip walls into a matching 45deg angle, what's the technical benefit in doing so ? I rather not clip them, that's way faster, plus the ability to edit/stretch/move them around later. I do clip decore edges that are showing the bottom and top surface, since they are visible in the game. Who gives a if the main structural walls aren't clipped ? Easier to caulk them later ? Yeah, but compared to tthe time used in hitting each edge and matching it up ? I'm not sure. edited on May. 16, 2005 04:55 am by elemenz*

oofunk

General Member
Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 178
Last: Jun 3, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 07:29 am
Ahh i didnt realise the orientation..... B1 then.... or B2... B3 has a higher possibilty of getting sparklies etc on the outside of teh buildings, plus B2 would help with light leaks. but in this application it doesnt really matter. To quote dONKEY from Map-Center:- Quote: rectangular brushes will be slipt into triangles, using mitred joints you can reduce the number of rendered tris in game. Where ever a corner of a brush meets along the edge of another brush, another tris is created in game. So by being careful and taken your time in places you will help the frame rate of your map. Obviuosly a general player isnt going to care much about how the map was made, all they care about is how the map plays in terms of frame rate and layout. So it makes sense to do all that is possible to make it run as well as possible!! Not clipping is alot quicker but will cause you more problems, your ability to edit them afterwards isnt affected, just a bit different! A lot of mappers design the whole map in just caulk and texture afterwards... Personnally i like to work on a section at a time.. but this is only because i like to keep testing in game to see what i am doing is anygood.... Funk

Fix_1138

General Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 224
Last: Dec 18, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 07:36 am
for the stair, the A2 pic is the way i would do it usually do it. you do not need to overlap the brushes to stop leaks, as long as there are no gaps between the steps then it will be ok. for the walls it depends on what you are using them for. if it is a room that you only see from inside then you would do as shown in pic B1. but if it is something seen from outside then you would need to do the 45° joint by doing it this way you have less polys than you would with overlapping brushes. this does not make much difference on its own, but in a normal map you would have 100s of walls like this so there is a large improvement at the end edited on May. 16, 2005 06:37 am by Fix_1138 edited on May. 16, 2005 06:38 am by Fix_1138

elemenz

General Member
Since: Dec 5, 2004
Posts: 260
Last: Oct 10, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 10:31 am
You mean "THIS" room is better than "THAT" room ? Say I have 100 of "these" rooms, will my map have more FPS than if it had 100 of "those" rooms ? seriously. I know if you draw a cube and make it hollow, walls overlap each other. But, are "THAT" room styled walls really that much worse than "THIS" room walls ? edited on May. 16, 2005 09:36 am by elemenz

narc

General Member
Since: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: 1204
Last: Dec 31, 2006
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 10:35 am
donkey should have said another 2 tris are created not just 1. you only need to mitre outside edges doing it to the interior ones gives no benefit if they are culled away in BSP. i prefer A2 method of making stairs, the larger your brush is the better chance for it to get or cause subdivisions.

PleaseMYOB

Preferred PLUS Member
Since: Dec 7, 2003
Posts: 1707
Last: Sep 25, 2008
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 11:34 am
I know this isn't really what was asked, but how you construct is less important that map layout... ("do as i say, not as i do" comes to mind) If your map is layed out to properly VIS you can get away with those extra few tris... EDIT Some classic examples... The L Corner The U Turn The Y Split The Funnel edited on May. 16, 2005 10:45 am by PleaseMYOB*
There's something horribly, treasonously wrong in a country of the people, by the people and for the people, where the government functions by lying to the people.

oofunk

General Member
Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 178
Last: Jun 3, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 11:42 am
I agree... but at the end of the day i guess i am too much of a perfectionist!! I couldnt be happy if i knew i had left untidy brushes in my map, regardless if you can see them etc Also it may take longer to do things in this manner.... but when it comes to it you know you have done everything possible to make your map run the best it can. Why bodge a map together that looks great... but when it runs crap you have to filter through and mitre/caulk everything... just do it in the first place.... Funk

elemenz

General Member
Since: Dec 5, 2004
Posts: 260
Last: Oct 10, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Monday, May. 16, 2005 12:11 pm
PleaseMYOB, how do you (if possible) add those lights onto a roof, flat, and without "carving" them in ? Like in the last pic of your examples (shop2). Is there a way to paint them on, in only 2D, depth and width, without height ?