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Forum: All Forums : Soldier of Fortune
Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Mapping, modeling, scripting, skinning and all forms of editing for the game Soldier of Fortune II
Moderators: foyleman, narc, ReverendTed, rEdrUmMDK, Foxhound, PleaseMYOB, batistablr, Welshy
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Author Topic: Detail Brushes
rEdrUmMDK
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Since: May 29, 2002
Posts: 6784
Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Saturday, Jan. 31, 2004 10:18 am
Since there are many new mappers coming onboard here is some info on Detail Brushes that is very important in map making.
When you compile you level you mayhave noticed that the vis compilation takes quite a while (possibly hours and hours!!!), What -vis is doing is working out what can be seen from wherever the player might be standing. (and therefore what the engine renders..)

The proper use of detail and structural brushes will help keep those -vis compilations at a minimum. -vis compliation will ignore any detail brushes and only "see" structural brushes...

The main walls of the map (and floors and ceilings and skies...!) should be structural brushes, but stairs, trimmings and details can all be set to detail brushes. It's important to remember that detail brushes are see-thru as far as vis is concerned and cannot be used to seal the level, cause they'll cause a leak.

Here's some helpful keyboard shortcuts for setting up detail / structural brushes...

CTRL + D
Turns viewing of Detail Brushes on/off

CTRL + M
Makes the selected brush Detail

From Q3workshop

Quote:
When you compile you level you mayhave noticed that the q3map -vis compilation takes quite a while (possibly hours and hours!!!), What -vis is doing is working out what can be seen from wherever the player might be stood. (and therefore what the engine renders..)

The proper use of detail and structural brushes will help keep those -vis compilations at a minimum. -vis compliation will ignore any detail brushes and only "see" structural brushes...

The main walls of the map (and floors and ceilings and skies...!) should be structural brushes, but stairs, trimmings and details can all be set to detail brushes. It's important to remember that detail brushes are see-thru as far as vis is concerned and cannot be used to seal the level, cos they'll cause a leak.

How can I make VIS more efficient? (and reduce -vis processing time)

The time -vis takes is roughly proportional to the number of Portals in the map. The number of portals is displayed when you start VIS, as "numportals xxxx". The visdatasize is the size the PVS table takes up in the mapname.bsp file - this is limited to around 2MB.
A lot of Leaf Nodes means a lot of Portals. A lot of Portals means a long vis time.
The number of Leaf Nodes depends entirely on the complexity of the BSP.
Solution: detail brushes - Making a brush detail will stop it from affecting the BSP Tree, reducing the number of Leaf Nodes formed.
To make any brush a detail brush, select it and press ctrl+m or Selection > Make detail. Toggle viewing of detail brushes with ctrl+D or use the View > Show menu.


The drawback of wide use of detail is that over-simplifying the Leaf Nodes can hurt your visibility efficiency (see visibility summary).
Solution: HINT brushes - A Hint brush (common/hint) will be invisible in Q3, but is structural, so it will affect the BSP Tree and create more Leaf Nodes. This gives you a lot of control over where the Leaf Nodes are created. Placing a hint brush in an area of open space will force creation of a Leaf Node within the area of that hint brush. Hints can also intersect with other structural solid brushes or Hints, creating multiple Leaf Nodes or isolating groups of Leaf Nodes.
Hint brushes use a shader which makes the brushes nonsolid and nodraw, called common/hint.


Hints are best used to make large axial cuts along planes shared by other structural brushes, to maximise the amount of area hidden by each vis-blocking structural brush, by minimising the number and size of the Leaf Nodes visible.

Intelligent use of detail and Hint brushes in combination can reduce vis time and r_speeds in almost any map. However the map must be designed from the start with this in mind. Redoing an inneffiently made map is a lot of work.
Note: Making a brush detail will stop it from blocking visibility, so don't make your vis-blocking walls into detail brushes.

Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone.
http://www.modsonline.com
better red than dead
Arkhos
General Member
Since: Dec 2, 2003
Posts: 111
Last: Apr 20, 2004
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Wednesday, Feb. 4, 2004 04:18 pm
That's great, I was just about to get into changing my textures to details. Thanks! BTW, is there a way to select all textures, or large portions of the map??
rEdrUmMDK
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Saturday, Feb. 7, 2004 04:15 pm
As far as entities and brushes draw a box around what you want to select. Make sure the height and width surround what you want to select. Then from the menu use Select Inside which will highlight everything inside the box.
Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone.
http://www.modsonline.com
better red than dead
minusmojo
General Member
Since: Feb 8, 2004
Posts: 311
Last: Jun 13, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Monday, Feb. 9, 2004 03:38 am
Im a GTK nooby here, and ive read all the stickies, I think I get the detail brush idea, and MAN did that cut like an hour and a half off my compile time, but I have a few questions about usage:

You say dont use it on floors on ceilings or walls, but what about this: I'm bulding an outdoor map with an guard-type inner wall, and an guard-type outer wall, to help make the world look real, not cut off after the first wall. The player can see the outer wall, but cant get past the inner - so its like a big yard with a Stone gate around it I guess - should they inner wall be a detail or structural Brush? you can see past it, and over it so I dont think its making any portals or anything.

Also the building has a deck around it, Can that be a detail, or since you walk on it does it need to be structural?


And thanks for all the FAQ's and Tut's, great stuff here guys. :)
rEdrUmMDK
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Monday, Feb. 9, 2004 07:05 am
I have made floors detail brushes before and the deck will be okay. As long as you do not make the worldspawn floor detail that would really cause a problem. Any brush separating you from the grey void cannot be detail.
Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone.
http://www.modsonline.com
better red than dead
A_Drunken_Theory
General Member
Since: Aug 8, 2003
Posts: 57
Last: May 4, 2008
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Level 3
Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Monday, Feb. 9, 2004 06:26 pm
are there any downsides to using too many detailed brushes?

I think i remember reading someplace that detailed brushes get drawn at all times by the game. I always just assumed this to be true, since they are 'see though' as far as -vis is concerned. Is that true?

Im making a neighborhood level, where all the houses would be contained inside the hull of the map. Would it be wize to make those detail? They are placed stategically so that the character can only see so much of the level at one time, keeping their fps at a decent number.

Im not that worried about the compile time. I'll wait an hour or two extra to have the level playable. (If detailed brushes effect that.) One thing that bugs me about some of the custom maps, although designed very nicely, they are hard to play with video latency.
rEdrUmMDK
Preferred PLUS Member
Since: May 29, 2002
Posts: 6784
Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Level 10
Admin
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Monday, Feb. 9, 2004 08:02 pm
Here is a good tip. Alway test your map with FPS on. I learned this the hardway. rEdrum's Keep ran like a dog on my computer. I had a twelve hour compile one time. Detailed a lot of brushes and brought it down to 30 min. Don't know how it ran on others. When I started checking the FPS it was low then I started asking questions. I wanted flaming torches throughout and found these efx's dragged down the fps quite a bit. So you must feel out the map as you test. If you add something then go test to see if the fps has dropped a bunch. Then make changes to adjust. Keep it as high as you can and use detail brushes where you can.
Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone.
http://www.modsonline.com
better red than dead
minusmojo
General Member
Since: Feb 8, 2004
Posts: 311
Last: Jun 13, 2005
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Level 5
Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Saturday, Feb. 21, 2004 11:43 pm
Heres a question:
What about hint and clip brushes?

I found out you can make them detail, what would that do?

I mean, a hint or clip brush isnt visable, so why can you even make it detail?
rEdrUmMDK
Preferred PLUS Member
Since: May 29, 2002
Posts: 6784
Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Level 10
Admin
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Wednesday, Mar. 10, 2004 10:46 am
Sounds like the last question should have been a new topic Kranky.
Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone.
http://www.modsonline.com
better red than dead
oofunk
General Member
Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 178
Last: Jun 3, 2005
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Level 4
Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design
Posted: Tuesday, Apr. 13, 2004 05:15 am
From my understanding, if you make a Hint detail it shouldnt make any difference, i think the hints properties are all in the shader so it knows that it is a structure brush whatever you do with it.....

Funk
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