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Moderators:	foyleman, rEdrUmMDK, Foxhound, PleaseMYOB, StrYdeR, batistablr, Welshy

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Topic: Whats your meaning of Immersion?

batistablr

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Since: Jul 12, 2005
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Last: Nov 21, 2008
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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 03:34 pm
In the Forum "Top 25 PC Games of All Time" There was some debate about what the word Immersion means. I just got done talking to [FR] Sparks and he said "I think to some people Pong could be immersive." and I asked "how is it related to life" he replied "how life bounces back and forth, and if you miss, you lose something in life;or get something in life if you score" I agree with him. What do you think.

Sparks.

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 03:52 pm
If the player can relate/refer to the game in a manner which simulates it in real life... that's immersion. But then you get into what is "simulation".

ITOE_MC

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 05:07 pm
The definition cited on the other thread is a good place to start: Quote: All forms of entertainment strive to create suspension of disbelief, a state in which the player's mind forgets that it is being subjected to entertainment and instead accepts what it perceives as reality. I don't have the context in which Salen and Zimmerman made the statement, so I can't say for sure whether or to what extent they actually think an immersed gamer accepts what he/she perceives on the monitor (and through the speakers) as reality. I expect that most psychologically healthy people don't really accept what they see and hear as being reality while playing a video game, no matter how immersive that game may be. But, as I said, I haven't read more than this one sentence from them, so I can't say for sure what their theory is, fully expressed. I think it might be more helpful to define immersion in terms of the extent to which the player of a given game shuts out reality in favor of the game world. In other words, the level of immersion is related directly to how much of the gamer's cognition becomes invested in the game. I doubt that there would be a fully objective way to measure that sort of thing, but asking several gamers for their subjective responses to the following questions, which ask them to provide a rating within a pre-defined range, might be helpful for game designers to compare "immersiveness" between different games. So, assume a rating system like this: A. often B. sometimes C. rarely D. never and ask questions like this about the game: 1. Did you concentrate on the game so much that you didn't think about anything else? 2. Did you care about the other major characters in the game? 3. Were you affected in any way if any of the major or minor characters died? 4. Did you care about the outcome of a portion of the storyline, apart from "winning," or accomplishing the objective? 5. Were you ever tired from playing, but continued to play because you wanted to see what was going to happen next? 6. Did you ever have an emotional reaction to something that happened in the game, apart from being frustrated at not being able to accomplish a goal? 7. Did the motivations of another character in the game matter to you in any way? I'm sure there are many other (and probably better) questions a game designer could come up with to gauge a player's reactions to a game. My point here is that the above questions focus on what I think is the central characteristic of immersion: good storytelling. It's the same with movies and books, and other forms of entertainment. To be immersive, a game has to make you care about what happens, above and beyond winning or losing. As one illustrative example, I played Tetris on the original Nintendo until I started dreaming about the pieces falling and locking them together. I was hooked on the game, but I never perceived any reality to it (as Salen and Zimmerman define immersion). Nor was I "immersed" in Tetris as I've defined the term. The FPS genre is one way to achieve immersion; the RTS and simulation genres are other ways. All can make use of storytelling in different forms as a means of drawing players into the game. For my money, first-person games (not necessarily, and not only shooters – think of Myst) have more potential to give the player a role to fulfill in a narrative, apart from more basic "command and control" functions. In short, the ability to be someone other than yourself, and the extent to which that character is developed through narrative, is what immersion is all about. edited on Mar. 18, 2007 05:09 pm by ITOE_MC

Sparks.

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 10:43 pm
One can never be another person. You're defining identity theft or con-artist. Myst is not a FPS, it's a puzzle game using the view of 1st person. And no pun intended, but if someone told me a FPS was the most immersive genre ever... I'd worry about them going to school some day and blowing the heads off kids. Just leave it to the definition of the "Rules of Play" book. I'd put my trust in those guys because of their credibility. edited on Mar. 18, 2007 10:50 pm by [FR]Sparks

ITOE_MC

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 11:06 pm
There's just nothing in that post worth responding to.

Sparks.

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 11:10 pm
But you did hit the reply button... so thanks. And you talked about the best medium of immersion is story telling for movies... ERRR, wrong. I took a screen writing class and in the books we read... all of them said the best way of immersion for movies is character... what makes us immersed is we want to get to know the characters. Just face it, you're going nowhere here and keep looping with bias.

ITOE_MC

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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 11:27 pm
It seems I cannot resist having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. So be it. This is what you said: Quote: ...all of them said the best way of immersion for movies is character And this is what I said: Quote: ...and the extent to which that character is developed through narrative, is what immersion is all about. And I might as well hit the last one, too, if only to challenge your reading comprehension as you challenged mine. This, again, is what you said: Quote: Myst is not a FPS, it's a puzzle game using the view of 1st person. And this, again, is what I said: Quote: For my money, first-person games (not necessarily, and not only shooters – think of Myst) ... I suppose I could have said, "think of Myst as an example of a first-person non-shooter," but at the time, I didn't think it was necessary to spoon-feed anyone. And finally, a point of clarification: Quote: And no pun intended, but if someone told me a FPS was the most immersive genre ever... I'd worry about them going to school some day and blowing the heads off kids. There is no pun in that statement. Nor is there anything about the statement that would remotely cause someone to think you were attemping a pun, and thus necessitating the qualifier, "no pun intended." Buy a dictionary. edited on Mar. 18, 2007 11:31 pm by ITOE_MC

Sparks.

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Last: Nov 21, 2008
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Category: In The News Posted: Sunday, Mar. 18, 2007 11:40 pm
You've quoted yourself out of context this time.... "that character" you were referring to us wanting to be him [video game characters]... we're talking about the movie genre now and my comment said wanting to get to know them [movie characters] as we can't control them as we can video game characters. You're quite the out-of-context quoter here, I guess that's how you win your debates. First-Person isn't a game genre, it's a POV. Any game can switch between 1st and 3rd person with some tweaking, it's too broad of a term to refer to games as "1st person" or "3rd person". And yes there could have been pun to that statement had I been more bold and added more bait. Is there even a point to continue in this convo? Can we get a mod to delete it. edited on Mar. 18, 2007 11:42 pm by [FR]Sparks

ITOE_MC

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Last: Nov 21, 2008
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Category: In The News Posted: Monday, Mar. 19, 2007 12:05 am
I took a couple of classes myself. This one in particular, the professor told us that cranial flatulence feels a lot like thinking. He had all kinds of credibility. No bias whatsoever.