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Forum:	All Forums : Soldier of Fortune
Category:	SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Mapping, modeling, scripting, skinning and all forms of editing for the game Soldier of Fortune II
Moderators:	foyleman, narc, ReverendTed, rEdrUmMDK, Foxhound, PleaseMYOB, batistablr

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Topic: r_showtris and r_speeds

rEdrUmMDK

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Since: May 29, 2002
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Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 05:53 pm
Narc. I did as you suggested and I have no idea in hades what to look for. I see white lines for showtris and lots of numbers for r_speeds. What am I to look for? Please, someone feel free to elaborate on these two items.
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foyleman

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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 06:39 pm
showtris will outline the polygons visible to the player. This can help you to find what areas may need hint brushes or area portals. I haven't really figured out how all the numbers in r_speed works yet. I see total verts and other things displayed, but I don't understand what the slash is for. like.. what is 2500/3000 verts? Both number changes depending on the players position. The old r_speed system was easier to understand.
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rEdrUmMDK

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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 06:49 pm
Thanks. This still leaves me in the dark with Narc. He started this. lol I hope he can explain. If the level does not generate any errors for you to eliminate what do you do. I do understand about having doors and windows on the same plain and that could cause problems. On a better note. I saw the move Signs yesterday and XXX today. Both great movies. I needed a couple of days off from computers. NO Way. Thanks again.
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Since: Jun 14, 2002
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Last: Jan 26, 2005
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 07:42 pm
2500/3000 All I heard, or at least remember, is that if either of these numbers get around 6000, then you need to do some redesigning and hint-brushing or something. :P I haven't played around with this too much -- but now that I know what to do, and not to do, I've got some experiments and things to run. I learn new things about mapping all the time.

foyleman

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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 07:52 pm
I did some research.. here we go... first, for those who want to follow along and don't know how to use these testing commands: • start your map with devmap (devmap mapname in the console) • type developer 1 • type r_showtris 1 (for showtris) • type r_speed 1 (for r_speeds) • 1 is on and 0 is off ok.. onto the stuff I found. as you know, showtris will draw a white line around all the trinagle that the game draws for the player. It can tell you where areas of the map are being drawn and help you to determine when other areas are being cut off. This way you can reduce the visible area and see if your methods of doing so are working. r_speeds puts out a steady stream of number at the top of the screen. They are live readings as such (xxx represents some arbitraty number): xxx/xxx shdrs/srfs xxx leafs xxx vrts xxx/xxx tris x.xx mtex x.xx dc The numbers that really matter here (to help reduce lag) are the number listed as xxx/xxx tris. This represents "triangles drawn in a single pass"/"triangles drawn in all passes" You MUST keep your "triangles drawn in all passes" below 12,000. Any higher and problems will occur. I havent' figured out the impact on lag with the other numbers yet.
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rEdrUmMDK

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Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 09:00 pm
I understand that these white lines can show you problem areas. But when you got a level with 2000 to 5000 brushes, and you run the showtris command. It would be mind boggleing to find a problem area. Unless it shows it in a different color other than white. Every brush is outlined in white. As far as the r_speed a person could run that command as they created the level. If tris is a major problem then we are limited to building nothing but square and retangular structures, really limiting the other types of structures. Don't get me wrong I am really enjoying this conversation hoping I and everyone else can learn from it. Thanks Guys.
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Foxhound

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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 10:10 pm
Hmm maybe this could be placed as a sticky? Definately could use this for future ref. Cheers
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rEdrUmMDK

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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 10:14 pm
I agree and it could be a sticky situation. lol
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narc

General Member
Since: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: 1204
Last: Dec 31, 2006
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Friday, Aug. 9, 2002 11:40 pm
basically the thing is that you want to see less white lines drawn. if i were standing in a room of your map i would not want to see tris drawn much farther beyond what i can actually see when standing in this room. try using the showtris on ravens maps, you will see large chunks of the map pop in and out of visibility. also look at the floor as you go, you will notice as you cross a certain white line and step onto anther triangle that it will pop in if you step back to the other it pops out. that line where they meet is important, its because your crossing over through a portal and into a new node which loads another PVS. this is the trick, its the key important thing. #1 know where your important portals are, those are the ones that pop in a new PVS. your goal is to make each PVS very small by arranging those portals so that they cant see one another! #2 move doors and windows so other portals cant see into them -- doors and windows have portals themselves. you should also add a hint brush inside each door and window as a rule of thumb so that they get "priority" in the vis process. #3 use hint brushes to split the bsp in other places if needed and further define the layout. this should be done intelligently (dont do it unless your sure your doing it right) as it will actually increase the r_speed in one area to make it lower in another. -- your showtris will verify if you did indeed make the pvs smaller or if you just subdivided more tris for nothing

rEdrUmMDK

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Since: May 29, 2002
Posts: 6784
Last: Dec 13, 2007
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Category: SoFII Editing, Gaming, and Design Posted: Saturday, Aug. 10, 2002 07:29 pm
I loaded SOF2's mp_hk1. I can see what you are talking about when I enabled Showtris. Like moving in and out of the building. In certain areas you can not see the white tris lines of the inside. I also saw that in quite a few other areas in that Hong Kong level. I loaded up my level and you could see every tris no matter where you went. That is driving the fps down so low. Which brings up another issue. With the next level I had wanted to build there is probably no way to build it because there were going to be many arched doorways all the way around the circumfrance of the arena. Also we would be talking about three tiers above ground. Below would also be a problem because I was going to put holding cells and they would not be able to face one another because of this tris thing. But I will try anyway to make it as best as I can.
Backup Your Work or your Work will be gone. http://www.modsonline.com better red than dead